So I hear that SourceForts 2.0 will not include a build phase. I hope this is an unfounded rumor but if it is not, I must say that removal of the build phase would destroy SourceForts.

It´ś simple... building a fort is not going to be required to succeed. In fact, building would be a non-factor. After all, most maps are designed so that you can fire from one flag directly to the other if there are no blocks in the way. Who would spend time trying to build a wall when you have a team of soldiers and rocketeers coming at you and your flag? Even without primary weapons in effect, a pistol can make short work of someone who is concentrating on building. And even if you did get some blocks up, an enemy engineer can come and dismantle what you built in no time. Taking time to build would in fact hurt a team rather than help it... so nobody would do that.

Without forts, SourceForts would just be another CTF mod. I understand there are problems with the build phase, but these problems can be resolved in other ways.

I understand that claim #1 against the build phase is impenetrable fortresses. Well, theréś a way around that. First, decrease the HP that blocks have. Second, make block repair slower. Third, make a class like Rocketeer, but the rockets only do significant damage to blocks, not players (maybe 1.5x damage that a normal rocket has, but only against blocks. It would be .5x against players.) This would make fortresses easier to get blown apart.

Another claim is ¨repetitive games¨. I can honestly say that no two forts are alike, unless the same exact people are building them. I would contend that without a build phase, it would be MORE repetitive... in fact, it would be exactly like any other capture the flag mod out there. How can it be less repetitive to do the same generic ctf gameplay over and over again?

When it comes to the claim that people are bored/confused by the build phase, the boredom issue is obvious; if someone is bored by building forts, why are they playing a game called SourceForts? Thatś like saying that Counter-Strike Source is going to add aliens because people are bored of Terrorist vs. Counter-Terrorist. Boredom is not the issue... in fact, the build phase is very interesting if you are indeed interested in playing a forts-based game.

As for the confusion, a tutorial map for newbies or pop-up help would alleviate the confusion. Maybe if there was a hazard course type level where the game shows you how to freeze a block, make a wall, etc, etc, then there would be no question as to what you do in build phase.

In short, removing the build phase would cripple the very concept of SourceForts and make it just as generic as any other CTF mod or CTF game. Itś a common flaw in game design to make a sequel or version ¨dumbed down¨ because the original is perceived to be too hard; just look at Deus Ex 1 and Deus Ex 2. It always ends up that the 2nd game is less popular because the depth just isn´t there. Without a build phase, SourceForts would be shallow.

*sigh*

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You are basing things on the assumption that the same maps would be played - this would not be the case. Much bigger, more intricate maps that are designed specifically for new gameplay, with planned chokepoints and distances that are sufficient to allow forts to spring up in places.

I'll let others deal with the other points, but please everyone, constructive posts only.

edit: I forgot to say - that post was nicely written. Thanks for taking the time to write coherently and logically - you'd be surprised how refreshing it is.

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We should have some description about what 2.0 is as the splash, to avoid threads like these. I know they're innocent and ignorant, but my god it get's annoying.

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If you would have read the design document (which isnt 100% complete anyway) you would notice that SourceForts2.0 is not going to be anywhere near the 1.9.x gameplay. Basically, it's a whole new game.
The things that are kept from the 1.9.x series are, afaik, the blocks and CTF things. It's not going to be "lets build a fort and see if we can hold it". The Dev team is speaking about a controlpoint system and other stuff (maybe other gamemodes, who knows), so there is no need for a Buildphase tbqh because of the CP system. On the other hand i understand what you're talking about but the fact 2.0 is'nt SF194 can't be negated. If you want to stay with the Buildphase and stuff, you can still play 1.9.x whenever you want, but development is going on with 2.0...

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I am deeply insulted by the anonymous mod who feels that I had no useful comments in my post.

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Sorry, rocket.

There's a big release that basically gives you everything you need to know about v2, somewhere.

In short;

No build phases
Long maps
Control points + flags
teams have to travel from one end to the other.

The game would play out as this;
The flag is defended at all times by a fort that is made in 'real-time'
Some team members go to capture control points
forts are then built around these control points
as the game progresses, teams have to break past the weak defences to capture control points and eventually get to the flag.

It would be possible for players to go from one end to the other at any point, but not wise tactically.


The idea is that the build phase leads to unbreakable forts. Forcing the players to build under fire leads to weaker forts, and thus easier gameplay. It also makes the game more interesting and gives a sense of urgancy to the game.

You know that rush you get when, as an engie, you're either unwelding an enemy block or fixing a whole in your own wall, which would be vital to your team's success, and you watch the timer count down, and you pray to god that noone shoots you before you're done?
It'l be like that 90% of the time for the building classes.

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i typed too long lol

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I'm not going to wade in, yet. Everyone else has already said what needs to be said. In a perfect world, this conversation would be left to slowly sink to the bottom of the page and then out of sight. I think we've established that SourceForts certainly isn't part of a perfect world, so it's like this thread will drag on like all the others.

I would however ask that anyone that wishes to continue arguing this (and I'm mainly looking at the original poster and others who wish to continue his argument) reads the design document.

While reading it keep in mind that since it was published we've overhauled it more times than I can remember and so you should only really take the basic gameplay mechanics from that.

But please, I don't want to see any more locked threads around here, it's unnecessary. Read up on what we're trying to do, and take some time over your posts.

Thank you.

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God.

Sayyan, i did :P I pointed out whats going to happen and thats it... there is no need to discuss this anymore so yea...

want a buildphase to build shit with patience etc -> stick to the 1.9.x series which will be as bugfree as possible.

want something new -> wait for 2.0

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